The humble podcast that snagged Andrew Yang and Michelle Phan
Written By: Demi Guo
Rock the Boat is currently hosting “On the Same Boat,” a series of mental health talks for coping during COVID-19. It airs every Friday at 5PM EST.
Co-host Lucia Liu did not expect her “Rock the Boat” podcast to host such names as Andrew Yang, nor for it to be relevant enough to be aiding listeners through mental health during the current COVID-19 pandemic. After all, she recorded her first interview on her cell phone.
“Rock the Boat” aims to provide advice for Asian American entrepreneurs — not only by hosting businessman-turned-presidential candidate Andrew Yang, but also beauty guru Michelle Phan and the founders of the Boba Guys store chain.
She describes her own career path as “unconventional.” Even her UPenn degree — a major in communications, a minor in consumer psychology — is what she describes as “half-marketing and half-psychology.” She put the marketing to use at a job with American Express, but wanted to start her own business. So she became a Smorgasburg chocolatier.
As they themselves were off the beaten career path, she and her friend, Lynne Guey, eventually noticed that there was a lack of career resources and voices from the Asian American perspective. They decided to fill that gap.
“I was listening to a podcast while tapping chocolate molds,” she said, “and I was like, ‘This is like a documentary in my ear.’”
Lucia Liu
“I’m a third-culture kid,” Liu said. She was born in Shanghai, raised all over the United States, went back to Shanghai for high school, and then came back stateside for college and beyond.
That initially made it hard to relate to her static classmates on either side of the globe, but did give her broader perspectives on overlapping Asian identity: These topics include colorism and rejection. “We’re a judgey population,” she said. “I think it hurts us from banding together. Asians are more likely to accept others over themselves.”
The back-and-forth made it tough for her to have an identity as a child, she said. The one constant was her family, a pair of engineers. Her mother, however, had once been a performer, and still preferred liberal arts. “She’s always encouraged me to not be an engineer,” Liu recalled. “I’m a free-range chicken. My parents let me do whatever I want.”
Despite that, her mother questioned her decision to leave the stability of her American Express job. However, Liu does not regret it. After all, she said, “Growing up, I really enjoyed telling stories too.”
The Secret Weapon
Liu and Guey each delved into the considerable contacts they had built on their crooked paths for guests and listeners. “From a secret weapon perspective, networking is our strong suit,” Liu said. “When you think about networking, you think about slinging business cards or mastering an elevator pitch. We both try to approach people with understanding. What are they looking for?
They had already been passionately bringing people together a year before the podcast launch, she remembers. “That’s honestly the best way: to give a media platform to share with each other,” she said.They ran test audiences and redid the first episode about five times. Despite all this feedback, however, Liu recalls a profound sense of doubt throughout the process. Still, they plowed on.
Their launch event hosted side panelists, including media figures like Melinda Lee, formerly from Buzzfeed, and Deepti Sharma, the founder of FoodtoEat, a community-minded concierge service. They had already invited Andrew Yang before the event. The night before, he responded. “‘Can I come and give a speech?’” Liu recalled him saying.
That was in January 2019. Liu remembers not wanting to have false hopes for a large turnout … and then being pleasantly surprised. “It was hella cold,” she said, “but we got 400 RSVPs. We maxed out.”
“Can you talk that to death?”
A year later, “Rock the Boat” has amassed over 5000 listeners. Guey, who comes from a journalism background, left the project in October, but used to write the scripts. Liu still edits the audio.
Liu’s method of interview focuses on long, thorough talks that she edits for brevity and clarity later. It is an intuitive process. “What is the really interesting niche that people wouldn’t expect from this story?” Liu said. “And then I say, ‘Can you talk that to death?’”
This method purposefully diverts from standard media practice. Liu remembers taking that approach when interviewing Abigail Hing Wen, the bestselling author of “Loveboat, Taipei.”
“The media cuts to the chase and lore for the masses,” she said. “The questions they ask her are always the same.” They highlight the most relevant part in the beginning, like Wen’s authorship, but Liu interviews chronologically. She started by asking about Wen’s background. “She was a high power lawyer who works in Capitol Hill, and that’s how you learn a lot of authors are activists.”
However, she keeps up-to-date with the proficiency of media outlets: Liu launched “On the Same Boat” this month. Each episode hosts an Asian American therapist, who then leads participants in a group discussion. They discuss a wide range of topics from coping with Asian identity during the COVID-19 pandemic, managing emotional triggers, managing guilt and loss to dealing with family.
The series currently runs until mid-June.
“Staying indoors is tough,” Liu said. “We’re getting people together to share stories.”
Check out “Rock the Boat” by listening to their podcast here or following them on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.